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Caledonian Sleeper question


I'm planning to get on the calidonian Sleeper at 22.22pm on the 16th at April at my local train station in Garelochhead for the start of our interrail tour. 

I have paid for the room supplement, great.

However as this is my First journey of the day and the Calidonian sleeper only need a ticket valid on arrival so the 17th... is the correct? Or do I just need my ticket to be valid in the app for the 16th? 

 

I also read somewhere they said to add it manually but I can't work out how. 

 

Any assistance would be very much appreciated!

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Best answer by rvdborgt 23 March 2023, 11:33

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@Mukhammad @Camilo. 

Please see my 2 posts above for the bug description.

You can of course try to fix the app, to make it adhere to the conditions of use. Alternatively, you could also change the conditions of use and leave the app as is. That would be more intuitive anyway and it would be the same as for the paper pass.

As a bonus bug, also note that in the first test, the app decided to change its language to English, although my OS (Android 11) lists German before English. I restarted the app before doing the second test and it displayed in German again.

 

[Where can I send my invoice? Just kidding...]

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Mukhammad wrote:
Related to the time zone used on the app, it respects the usage of CET according to the information here. I did my research on trains which operate at night in CET-1 and CET+1 time zones, but I couldn't find any train which goes against the CET time zone's rule.

No, the app doesn't respect the CET zone days. We've seen a few cases in this community last year and nothing has changed since. But to reproduce this once again myself, I've loaded the flexipass I recently bought and activated it (well in the future...).

First test: train leaves before midnight WET but after midnight CET.

Steps to reproduce:

  1. On 28 April, look for the night train from Garelochhead (dep. 23:11) to London. (Note the timetable is wrong because it includes a change in Edinburgh, but that doesn't matter for this test.)
  2. Add the journey to your trip.
  3. Tap on the switch to add the first train to your pass.

Result:
The app wants to activate a travel day on 28 April:

Expected result:
The app should activate a travel day on 29 April because the train leaves after midnight CET.

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Second test: train leaves after midnight EET but before midnight CET.

Steps to reproduce:

  1. On 30 April, look for the train from Bucuresti Nord (dep. 0:30) to Bucuresti Aeroport Henri Coanda.
  2. Add the train to your trip.
  3. Tap on the switch to add it to your pass.

Result:
The app wants to activate a travel day on 30 April:

Expected result:
The app should activate a travel day on 29 April because the train leaves before midnight CET.

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Yes, in theory you only need to use a travel day on the 17th if you have an ‘X days in Y months’ type of pass. 

But I believe the whole journey needs to fall within the validity of your pass, so your pass would need to be valid on the 16th. 

As @rvdborgt says, the app gets this wrong, and will make you use a travel day on the 16th. It would be good to get an official response from Eurail on what customers should do, and to publish this advice (about UK sleepers counting arrival day, and about non CET countries) on the page about sleepers.

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@Camilo. @Mukhammad 

Any update on these 2 issues? (App doesn't honour travel days in CET but uses local time, which is contrary to the conditions, and how to use the app on night trains in GB, where you are supposed to have a valid travel day for the arrival date).

Huh. They must have changed that very recently!

If that's the case, then the OP would need to use a travel day on the 16th for the sleeper and on the 17th for the onward connections.

And the time zone quirk is irrelevant in this case, since departure from Garelochhead at 2222 local time is still the 16th in CET.

So I think in this case, a paid ticket from Garelochhead-Edinburgh is the only way to avoid using an extra travel day.

That train does not have a passenger stop at Edinburgh, tickets to/from Edinburgh and splitting like that would not be valid on this train. It is not something I would advise someone to do.

For 16 April, splitting in Dalmuir (departure 23:05 = 0:05 CET) would be good. But indeed no tickets are sold and I suppose no reservation can be made either. Although all planners, including nationalrail.co.uk, display the journey. If passengers are not allowed to do this journey with this train, then that's an error in Caledonian Sleeper’s timetable.

It's no error, they are just not selling it. Here are their rules:

 

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In addition to that, related to the language bug you found on the App, did you already enable the error logging function?

If yes, please send me your Device ID. I'll raise this issue to the IT dept.

I didn't but I've turned it on now and will let you know when it happens again.

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There are 2 reasons why you should only need a travel day on the 17th:

  1. Caledonian sleeper insists on having a travel day valid for the arrival day.
  2. The departure time is 23:11, which is 0:11 CET the next day. If you have a mobile pass, then the time in CET should be used to determine the travel day, according to the conditions of use.

However, the mobile app doesn't implement these things: it always books a night train on the day of departure and it always seems to use the local date and time.

How are you getting from Edinburgh to Paris?

Im doing the Calidonian sleeper Garelochhead to Euston, then the eurostar to Paris from St Pancras itl. The pass doesn't cover either in full. I got the califonian sleeper supplement and doesn't cover the euro star.

Just to be clear, you’re using the pass for the whole journey Garelochhead - Euston - Paris - Basel? And you’re paying a the sleeper supplement and the Eurostar supplement?

Yes that's correct 👍. 

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It would be really helpful to get some input from Eurail staff here. 
It’s not fair to leave customers having to guess, or use workarounds, when the app and one operator isn’t conforming to the published rules

Seems Caledonian Sleeper did change it's rules recently:

You do now need the day of departure. So there's no exception from the general rule any more.

I did also verify this with them directly, too.

@Hannahnapier080518 According to this, you would need to enter the 16th which would cause a problem for your onward connection unfortunately. Maybe you could argue that you did book under the old rule.

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Huh. They must have changed that very recently!

If that's the case, then the OP would need to use a travel day on the 16th for the sleeper and on the 17th for the onward connections.

And the time zone quirk is irrelevant in this case, since departure from Garelochhead at 2222 local time is still the 16th in CET.

So I think in this case, a paid ticket from Garelochhead-Edinburgh is the only way to avoid using an extra travel day.

 

That train does not have a passenger stop at Edinburgh, tickets to/from Edinburgh and splitting like that would not be valid on this train. It is not something I would advise someone to do.

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In addition to that, related to the language bug you found on the App, did you already enable the error logging function?

If yes, please send me your Device ID. I'll raise this issue to the IT dept.

I didn't but I've turned it on now and will let you know when it happens again.

I've now found a way to trigger it: by going to the release notes.

In the German version, go to Mehr > Was gibt es Neues? > Versionshinweise.

That page is empty (that's probably also a bug...). Then go back once and you'll already see that page in English with e.g. "release notes”. The rest of the app will then also slowly change to English until I restart it. This is also still reproducible in version 30.1.0. I'll send you my device ID in a private message.

BTW, I'd rather have a proper language setting in the app, so I don’t have to manipulate the language order in my OS to get my most important apps in the language I want.

Hi Rian,

I already sent you a PM. In addition, I can see that the release notes' page is not empty anymore after checking it with the developer team, although the information written might only available in English.

I understand there's no language setting in the app, and it works based on automated translation from the language in the user's device. Of course, I agree that this needs to be implemented in the App and hopefully this can be done in the near future.

 

Have a nice day!

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@Mukhammad @Camilo. 

Please see my 2 posts above for the bug description.

You can of course try to fix the app, to make it adhere to the conditions of use. Alternatively, you could also change the conditions of use and leave the app as is. That would be more intuitive anyway and it would be the same as for the paper pass.

As a bonus bug, also note that in the first test, the app decided to change its language to English, although my OS (Android 11) lists German before English. I restarted the app before doing the second test and it displayed in German again.

 

[Where can I send my invoice? Just kidding...]

Hi Rian,

Thank you for the search you did on your end. I definitely missed those connections.

I'm reporting this case as we speak.

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Thank you for the search you did on your end. I definitely missed those connections.

Also note that this isn't train-specific. It will be the same for any train:

  1. in the WET zone leaving between 23:00 and 23:59.
  2. in the EET zone leaving between 0:00 and 0:59.
  3. in the TRT zone (Turkey) leaving between 0:00 and 1:59, or between 0:00 and 0:59 when CEST is in effect (probably, I didn't test this).
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Further it is not possible to elbow this in by putting Watford to Glasgow i.e. a start after midnight local time - it does not recognise this journey and anyway that leaves me paying for London to Watford which I don’t see why I should have to when this is a bug in their app.

I suggest adding the train manually with a changed departure time of 5 April 0:00.

If anyone makes you pay anything, then claim it back from customer service, referring to the conditions of use.

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@rvdborgt Unfortunately it is still in the progress status. For now your answers on that topic are the best workarounds so far for any customers experiencing this time zone issue.

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I was going to suggest a practical solution of buying a ticket from Garelochhead to the first station after midnight local time, but there aren’t any on this train. (And yous shouldn't have to pay extra anyway!)

Thank you both for your advice. Yes I have a a 10 days in 2 months pass and I've included the 16th. I've also added Garelochhead to Edinburgh as my first journey so I can generate the ticket. Would you say this looks right/good enough to generate the online pass? Thank you again 

 

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How are you getting from Edinburgh to Paris?

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I’m not sure what adding Gareloch - Edinburgh achieves here? The app will use up a travel day on the 16th which is not what you want. And adding Edinburgh-London will use up the 17th.

You could add Edinburgh-London to the app, which departs after midnight local time, and guarantees that you will only use the 17th - both according to the way the rules are written, and the way the app behaves.

But you’d have to pay £8.40 for an Anytime Day Single from Gareloch-Edinburgh if you want to guarantee the travel on the 16th doesn’t use up a travel day, and you shouldn’t have to do that.

How are you getting from Edinburgh to Paris?

Im doing the Calidonian sleeper Garelochhead to Euston, then the eurostar to Paris from St Pancras itl. The pass doesn't cover either in full. I got the califonian sleeper supplement and doesn't cover the euro star.

I’m not sure what adding Gareloch - Edinburgh achieves here? The app will use up a travel day on the 16th which is not what you want. And adding Edinburgh-London will use up the 17th.

You could add Edinburgh-London to the app, which departs after midnight local time, and guarantees that you will only use the 17th - both according to the way the rules are written, and the way the app behaves.

But you’d have to pay £8.40 for an Anytime Day Single from Gareloch-Edinburgh if you want to guarantee the travel on the 16th doesn’t use up a travel day, and you shouldn’t have to do that.

Thank you for your help, I'll delete Garelochhead to Edinburgh and add Edinburgh-London on the 17th shame they have made this so awkward. 

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How are you getting from Edinburgh to Paris?

Im doing the Calidonian sleeper Garelochhead to Euston, then the eurostar to Paris from St Pancras itl. The pass doesn't cover either in full. I got the califonian sleeper supplement and doesn't cover the euro star.

Just to be clear, you’re using the pass for the whole journey Garelochhead - Euston - Paris - Basel? And you’re paying a the sleeper supplement and the Eurostar supplement?

Userlevel 7
Badge +9

In addition to that, related to the language bug you found on the App, did you already enable the error logging function?

If yes, please send me your Device ID. I'll raise this issue to the IT dept.

I didn't but I've turned it on now and will let you know when it happens again.

I've now found a way to trigger it: by going to the release notes.

In the German version, go to Mehr > Was gibt es Neues? > Versionshinweise.

That page is empty (that's probably also a bug...). Then go back once and you'll already see that page in English with e.g. "release notes”. The rest of the app will then also slowly change to English until I restart it. This is also still reproducible in version 30.1.0. I'll send you my device ID in a private message.

BTW, I'd rather have a proper language setting in the app, so I don’t have to manipulate the language order in my OS to get my most important apps in the language I want.

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