i was planning a trip to swiss alps, but my family is not skiing, so not worth it. Asking for help planning 10 days in europe. i need an itinerary that allows us to see as much as we can in a short time. flying in to one city and out of another to maximize places visited would be great. thanks
Best answer by thibcabe
View originalEurail passes : Adult and Youth (under 28 y.o.) versions. Reservations always cost the same.
Tickets : use trenitalia.com and italotreno.it and check. Enter the date and route you want + passengers (5 adults). There’s no family discount for adults aged 18, 20 and 22 but there might be a group discount.
Tickets will be more expensive closer to travel date (as opposed to Eurail + reservations = fixed prices). Eurail would allow you to decide on the day/the day before which train you’d like to take.
What are your travel dates ? I think you didn’t answer that question previously but it’s to warn you that trains will be more expensive/sold out around Christmas & New Year (busy period). Do not wait to book. Later in January will be much better.
About your itinerary : I’d say 3 nights Rome, 2 nights Florence, 2 nights Venice, 1 night near Varenna on Lake Como (or Milan if you prefer to stay in a city), 1-2 nights Zurich.
Check timetables on bahn.com or DB Navigator app. You’ll see that to get from Venice to Tirano (start of the Bernina route) you must change in Milan. After the Bernina & Albula route you’ll arrive in Chur which has trains every 30 min to Zurich (1h15 journey).
Then go back from Milan. You can do Lucerne (or Zurich) - Malpensa Airport easily avoiding Milan center :
If your flight leaves in the morning better to spend the night in a hotel next to the airport.
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Three 1-night stops in a row in Switzerland sounds like hard work, and a lot of wasted time checking in and out, packing bags etc. I would try to stay in 1 spot for three nights if at all possible. Switzerland is very easy to get around. I don’t think St Moritz is worth a special visit.
How about stay this instead:
Day 1 Como to Chur via the Bernina Express, sleep Lucerne
Day 2 Day trip to Bern via the Goldenpass route in one direction, sleep Lucerne
Day 3 Day trip to somewhere else. Zurich or your choice, sleep Lucerne
Day 4 Quick morning in Lucerne then 1h10 train Zurich airport
You could just as easily make an itinerary work with 3 nights in Bern or Zurich.
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I would try to spend more time in Rome than 2 days. Drop either Florence (because although it’s gorgeous, it’s probably the least interesting of your three Italian cities) or Venice (because it’s further out of your way).
back again…..still not done with trip itinerary. suggestion of driving for the italy portion..thoughts?
fly into rome, stay 3 nights
drive to florence , 2 nights,
then to venice, 1 night
then should we drive back to milan and take train into switzerland?
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What do you want to see in that driving trip?
A car is great in Tuscany. You could take one from Florence for a day or two. But I would do the rest of the trip by train unless there’s something you really want to see en route that’s not accessible by train.
One night in Venice? Like I said before, it seems like a long way to go just to spend 1 night there! I would really try to drop one of your Italian cities. I know it’s hard to do that though.
is there a way to head into switzerland from venice? i would rather drop one of the other italian cities. seems like this is a good time of the year to see venice. would not come during summer crowds.
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is there a way to head into switzerland from venice? i would rather drop one of the other italian cities. seems like this is a good time of the year to see venice. would not come during summer crowds.
By train? You will be going back to Verona, then either
ok. so maybe venice to milan via bernina pass? then where should we go as we head to zurich?
i thought car from rome to florence then venice to milan would allow us to enjoy the ride, but again, since we don’t have the luxury of time, maybe train is better.
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ok. so maybe venice to milan via bernina pass? then where should we go as we head to zurich?
i thought car from rome to florence then venice to milan would allow us to enjoy the ride, but again, since we don’t have the luxury of time, maybe train is better.
No, it would be Venice to Milan first, then take Bernina Pass into Switzerland.
It’s up to you on the car, of course, but I think the train will be more enjoyable, and much faster! You absolutely don’t want a car in the cities. The only time it might be useful is to explore Tuscany for a day or two. But it looks like you wouldn’t have time for that anyway.
A good explanation of the Bernina Pass route here, including a timetable.
yes, sorry meant then instead of via bernina pass. so 3 days rome, train to florence, 2 days, train to venice ? days, train back to milan (do we stay one night?), then bernina pass into switzerland (then where as we head to zurich?)
also, for the trains in italy for the 5 of us, is there a discount option?
We arrive in Rome December 27 and leave from Zurich Jan 5
Okay thanks. I stay with my previous itinerary :
Tickets vs pass : after a quick look my calculations amount to 550-600€ with .Italo (700€ with Trenitalia) for your Italian journeys + 220 CHF (233€) for Switzerland. Regular tickets in Italy + in Switzerland 2 full-fare Saver Day Passes and one Friends Day Pass (valid for up to 4 people under 25 y.o. = for your 3 children). Let’s say 800€ for you 5.
.italo trains are as good as Trenitalia + cheaper so travel with them. 1st class only costs a few € more. Venice - Milan is about the same price on Trenitalia/.italo so choose the departure time best fitting you.
Passes : 1217$ = 1150€ for you 5 + 200€ on reservations = 1350€. More expensive.
I’d choose tickets over passes for this trip. The flexibility Eurail offers won’t be useful in Italy as you need to book seats pretty soon either way. And then the day passes in Switzeland give you full flexibility in Switzerland (even more than Eurail as buses/trams are included).
Book everything as soon as possible for the best prices (except regional train tickets in Italy with fixed prices anyway). Questions welcome.
Last thing : the Italian high-speed trains are pretty full on your dates. You should be able to choose seats during booking but it might not always be possible to sit together (check the previous/following connection).
Is there a budget for flights ? I'd say look first to where you can find cheap tickets.
Are you planning the trip in January-February ? Around that time I'd suggest southern Europe.
For example Italy : landing in Rome, visit the city, then Florence, Venice and ending in Milan. Or the other way around of course.
Spain : Barcelona - Madrid - Sevilla - Cordoba/Granada. It will be easier to come back to Madrid by train and fly home from there.
we have a budget, and it’s for 5 of us, husband, 3 adults kids and myself. i was thinking milan, st. moritz on bernina express, then luzern, and end somewhere near there for return flight to new york. what do you think? i want to get some guidance regarding trains.
I'd spend more time in Italy since your focus is not on skiing but it's a good idea to finish with the Bernina Express for sure. You'll probably leave from Zurich (unless you find good deals from Geneva).
Something like :
- Rome 3 nights
- Florence 2 nights
- Lake Como 1-2 nights
- St. Moritz (I don't recommend)/somewhere else in Engadin Valley for a night but you could go straight to Lucerne
- Lucerne 2 nights
It's a bit fast-paced but you asked for that itinerary. :)
High-speed trains between Rome and Florence (up to 4 per hour, 1h30 journey), Florence and Milan (hourly, 2h journey). Then multiple slower regional trains through the Alps !
the train situation seems confusing, but i will figure it out.
the only part missing from the itinerary is a stop in lucerne. i wanted to get at least one beautiful town in switzerland in before we head to zurich on our way out.
how come you don’t recommend st. moritz? so flight into rome? what are your thoughts on venice? do we need 3 nights in rome? really appreciate your insight. feel like i’m almost there!
also, what town in engadin valley do you suggest?
St. Moritz is in my opinion an overrated ski resort for millionaires. The town in itself is quite ugly too.
There are other more beautiful villages but they're quite small so don't expect a lot of activity. For example Zuoz, Madulain or Zernez a bit further away.
Venice is worth a visit, especially in winter with less tourists than usual. I visited the city in February and it was lovely !
You could add it between Florence and before Lake Como/Bernina Express. Something like :
- Rome 3 nights
- Florence 2 nights
- Venice 2 nights
- Lake Como 1 night
- Lucerne 1 night (or Zurich if your flight leaves early anyway)
Would be better to stay for 2 nights in Lucerne/Zurich so maybe only 2 nights in Rome. That's up to you honestly.
Sorry if I confused you, that wasn’t the goal! To keep it short :
… or get Eurail Passes + high-speed train reservations but it will be quite a lot more expensive in the end.
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If you really wish to include Lucerne I’d do it that way :
4th January :
A detour via St. Moritz would take an hour longer. Trains run hourly. With the tickets I suggested above you have full flexibility on the train.
5th January :
Or cancel the night around Lake Como, leave Venice early on 3rd January (07:18) to make it to Chur at 5pm and Lucerne at 7:30pm. Then on 4th January travel around Lucerne (funiculars/cogwheel trains available but they’ll be very expensive).
Honestly Lucerne is a small town with nothing special. Views are beautiful for sure when there’s no fog (frequent in winter). You’ll get the best landscapes during the Bernina journey. :)
I’d really focus in Italy and come back to Switzerland at some point during summer/fall.
perfect itinerary. would i be able to take trains between all these locations? what mode of transportation do you recommend?
i’ll go with your suggestion and skip lucerne.
we will go rome to florence to venice to lake como(via milan?), should we stay one night in milan and only do one night in venice?
then from milan to lake como?
then lake como to zurich...is that the scenic train? bernina express part?
Definitely use the train. It's no use flying for these journeys.
I wouldn’t spend a night in Milan. 2 nights in Venice (1st-3rd January) and 1 on the eastern side of Lake Como (3rd-4th January) would be my choice.
You’ll have to go through Milan at some point yes. If you wish you could leave your luggage somewhere at the station and visit the city for a few hours. Feel free to decide on the day, only Venice - Milan needs to be booked in advance. Itinerary on 3rd January :
From Lake Como travel to Tirano on a standard regional train through an Alpine valley. Then the fun begins :)
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