In my opinion, your trip has little geographical logic. You start out Central, then you go immediately to the most western European countries, then relatively far south, and then rather east. That way, it is going to be a hassle indeed.

Take a map and try to make a (rough) circle, your rail adventures will be much more easy, stressless and comfortable. And you’ll able to see more, than just the inside of a train.

It’ll be easier to go e.g. head to Krakow first, as it is the farthest destination. Plenty of nice potential destinations in between as well. Coming back, (maybe by night train to save time) you can go over Czechia and Austria to Vienna. From there you can choose, you have easy connections to Venice and consequently the rest of Italy, than France, than England,.. or you could go with a stopover over Munich and Garmisch-Partenkirchen.

I assume you arrive and leave from Düsseldorf?

I would avoid Eurostar (London- Paris/Lille/Brussels/Amsterdam) between Christmas and New Year’s Day. It’s gonna be very, very, busy.

Don’t worry about London-Manchester, tons of trains per day, every 20 minutes. With only (free) optional reservations. Missed one? Just take the next one.

Good to know: There’s a big timetable change on December 10, 2023. Which will make your route planning a bit difficult in this stage. Just check a random date somewhere next week, and you’ll get an indication of which services you can expect in the new 2024 timetable. This “big” timetable change, usually doesn’t change much, the majority of trains only changes a bit by minutes (and often not). But it’s the moment for the rail companies to add in or change some train connections, plan in some construction works,…
New timetables will be available a couple of months in advance (2, maybe 3) with most companies. Others only a couple of weeks before that date (Italy is quite notorious in this).

the itinerary chose was specific.
Dusseldorf to Paris 29th Dec after 12 pm is our 1st stop
Paris to Manchester UK is to see family so the train right up there in one day

Manchester to London  is to spend 4 nights there before we catch a flight to Rome

Rome to Florence - Venice over 6 days  would be using local trains and checking out areas of Rome Pisa Florence and Venice. 3nights Rome  1 night Florence 2 nights Venice

Krakow to Munich onto Garmisch-Partenkirchen is after flying to Krakow

Garmisch-Partenkirchen back to Dusseldorf is the final train trip back to my sons place.

As you can see the trip is slightly rushed however we have highlights our family wish to see hence why we are in these locations. The train journeys are seldom the biggest being Krakow to garmisch or mb just to Munich for  2 nights with a side trip to garmisch to see the Zugspitze


IS it going to be better booking trains individually with a reservation cost rather than a Eu rail pass of say  4/5 days in 1 month. I have no idea what reservations cost but i do know the eu pass allows me a paris London trip at 30 euros.
The Thalys from Dusseldorf to Paris i understand has a high reservation cost but its the fastest train at  4 hrs
I am trying to reduce as much cos as possible. the flights from Krakow to Munich are expensive plus luggage hence the option to get a train at around  6 hrs

I still need the question answering also regarding the pass activation. how do we do this if i buy one and book trips in advance without activating it. 
It appears at this stage buying a pass would be cheaper there are  3 of us but i have no idea what reservations cost so this is a factor.

I am also well aware of train changes but i need to book in advance i guess I'm going to have to take the risk off possibly some trains will change in time however its as you said minimal on the Paris to Manchester leg
no effect on the Manchester to London leg
no effect within Italy
The only concern would be the Krakow to Munich and Munich or garmisch to Dusseldorf leg

You best compare prices then of ordinary tickets with a pass: you can use this site e.g. https://www.raileurope.com/en. If you use that site to book, best book as many tickets in once, so that you pay the booking fee only once. Sometimes it doesn’t give results, split up a journey in parts. E.g. not Paris-Manchester, but Paris-London; London-Manchester.

The average pass day costs: Devide the total cost by the number of days. + count some reservation cost with it.

Price of passes you find on the Eurail website, seat reservation fees are found here: https://www.eurail.com/en/plan-your-trip/about-reservations/reservation-fees

You could also buy an ordinary Thalys ticket, and start using the pass later, on the Eurostar.

As said before, most tickets for december 2023 won’t be available for this date. The only train already bookable, is the Eurostar.

If you’lld compare prices in september/august, you’ll get a nice overview on how much the cheaper advance tickets would cost. Not that advance tickets have no flexibility, in comparison to a pass of course.

So you plan a stop in Paris, the 29?

If not, you should go over Brussels. Eurostar prices are a bit cheaper there and wont be a detour. If you book that via Deutsche Bahn, you probably can score a nice discount.

If you can score the cheap advance tickets on Thalys, it’s the same price of an seat reservation with a pass. Bookings open +/- 4 months in advance (+/- 32 EUR). A bargain, if you’re early.

Eurostars around Christmas and New Years Eve are already on the pricy side, don’t wait too long to book them, wether it are cheap.

Most other trains, won’t be bookable until 1-2 months in advance for ordinary tickets.

Still, if filghts are expensive on Krakow-Munich leg: advance tickets. To compare: I find advance train tickets for less than 50 Euro per person, and no extra costs for all of your luggage… And you’re dropped off in the heart of the city.

But I’lld still say that in your itinerary, Krakow put’s you a bit too far out of course, leading to a very rushed travel experience and extra cost. you could replace it by Winter Alpine views, perfectly between Italy and Germany. But it’s your call of course :)

Yes some good tips there. I do plan to do the split legs to Manchester
I was just discussing it with my son in Germany and despite it being slightly rushed the trip is to basically give us all different experiences of seeing Europe in winter, its cold its possibly snowing in one or two places, Xmas is cold as opposed to Summer over in new Zealand.
ITs pretty with lights everywhere it gets dark much earlier than here, there are Xmas markets unlike here there are different languages and plus we will see all the sights you see in the movies and on documentaries so the experiences are going to be vast despite being rushed a little.

Yes i have checked Thalys already and saw the 32 Euro seats, - IS there a reservation fee to pay on top of that for only a  4 hr journey

we will go from Dusseldorf on the  26th to Paris for  3 nights so we will have  2 full days to get what we can see in mb catacombs Sacre ceur, Eifel tower, Louvre and mb a evening or morning cruise.

The Eurostar seems to be 30 Euros with a pass too which i think includes reservation fee

I will have a look at the rail Europe site thank you

If you book an ordinary ticket on a train with mandatory reservations (like Thalys, Eurostar, TGV, AVE, Frecciarossa,...) your seat reservation is included at no extra cost.

The Eurail pass is your ticket. But doesn’t include seat reservations. The 30 EUR Eurostar you mentioned, is only the reservation fee. So you’ll need a valid Eurail pass as well in order to travel.

If all of this sounds confusing:

Best check out this page, it will clarify a lot, if not all questions you might have:

https://www.seat61.com/how-to-use-a-eurail-pass.htm

Thank you so much for the clarification i realize it must be frustrating for newbie idiots like me hahaha