The outbound/inbound rule says that you can travel on a maximum of two travel days in your country of residence so you need to buy tickets for 2 of your travels within Germany. 

Hi Anna,

ok. So i need to buy a DB ticket from Berlin (or HH) to the first city in France (behind the boarder), right? or to the city on the german side before the boarder? 

e.g.

TGV Mannheim → Paris EST

Mannheim

Kaiserslautern

Saarbrucken

Forbach (FR

Paris - EST

So i buy a ticket until Forbach with the DB?

looking forward to hearing from you and thank you for your fast answer

You should buy a ticket to the border station.

If you look up the train you will travel with across the border on DB you can see all stations and there you can see which the border station is.

Otherwise I'm sure that @rvdborgt or @seewulf will let you know which the border station is.

Es gibt für die Frankreichverbindungen den Tarif "Passzuschlag 2", den man erhält, wenn man eine Netzkarte hat, die nur in Frankreich gilt. Der deckt den deutschen Streckenanteil ab.

Den auch schon nicht ganz günstigen Tarif "Passzuschlag 1" braucht man für die grenzüberschreitenden ICE / TGV eh, auch wenn man die Fahrttage im Heimatland nutzt. Mit "Passzuschlag 2" braucht man den aber nicht mehr.

Da hilft aber nur der Gang ins Reisebüro am Bahnhof. Ich würde dort mal den Preis für den Passzuschlag 2 für das konkrete Datum abchecken lassen. 

Wirklich was sparen wird man (auf der Strecke) aber wohl nur durch einen günstigen Tarif nach Saarbrücken und dann mit dem Bummelzug über die Grenze nach Forbach oder Metz. Hält natürlich zeitlich auf. 

Die offizielle Grenze auf der Strecke ist tariflich übrigens tatsächlich auf freier Strecke und nicht im Bahnhof. Grenztarifpunkt ist Forbach (fr). Das ist in dem Fall aber völlig theoretisch. Eine Fahrkarte nach Forbach (also dem ersten Bahnhof hinter der Grenze) zu kaufen ist unnötig und wäre sowieso zu teuer (im ICE / TGV).

I am sorry but the translation of your post has me totally confused?

Surely the situation is simply that the original poster finds the least cost way to get over the border to the first station classed as “France”. In some stations they actually have 2 identifiers in the planner e.g. Basle, where you can select Basle (Swiss) or Basle (Ger).

You cannot buy a ticket to a physical border point, so are you suggesting they buy a ticket  to the last station in Germany and then travel to the first station in France where they activate their pass?

Although not a German speaker, the translation of the “pass zuschlag” is also confusing - can anybody explain if this is something non German travellers should be aware of? It translates as a surcharge for anybody crossing a border from Germany using an Interrail pass. The only surcharge I am aware of is the Brenner pass supplement when you use an ECB in Italy.

Or is it simply if you have a DBahn pass that allows free travel in Germany you can pay a supplement to cross the border?

Or something completely different?

 

To get from Germany to France without using the Inbound/Outbound you need a ticket till the "Grenztarifpunkt" would be the Border Fare Station (virtual) in this case Forbach (fr). 

To France there is no border stations that are for train fares in Germany and France but only this virtual points where DB and SNCF change their fares. 

Pass Zuschlag is in German Pass surcharge (wich is in this case and of all trains in western europe with compulsory reservation, because the price is way more than the cost of a reservation)

There is Passzuschlag 1 - the normal Interrail reservation fare.

Passzuschlag 2 - the ticket fare where you pay for the German Part, because you have a ticket for France + Reservation cost)

For people that have a ticket in Germany but not in France. They pay from the last station in Germany (it is strange but DB has to make money, only the case on this route using ICE/TGV, with local trains from the border fare point). 

In Germany, there are different types of rail pass supplements when using a cross-border service. "Passzuschlag" and the relevant number is what you need to ask for when buying it at a station. It's simply the official name.

"Passzuschlag 2" means that you do have a valid rail pass for (here) France but not for Germany. You can't buy a ticket to the border point, so you need to buy this Passzuschlag. 

"Passzuschlag 1" means that you hold a valid rail pass for the whole journey. You know this type from the Brenner supplement. In ÖBB speech it's called "Aufpreis Brennerverkehr". The same exists also for other IC / EC cross border services from Austria into Italy (e.g. Wien to Trieste) or Slovakia (e.g. Wien to Bratislava) or Railjet services via Tarvisio.  

Yes, there's also a Passzuschlag if you are holding a rail pass (just) for Germany. That's the third one.

That's "Passzuschlag 3" (for ICE / TGV). No need to buy a ticket from the last station. 

Yes you can. That has always been possible and remains possible, as long as the physical border point is also a tariff border point. It's just that DB have now implemented this a bit differently with their "Passzuschlag”.

Die Frage ist mit welchem TGV sie ab Mannheim nach Paris fahren wollen? Es gibt TGV´s die fahren über Saarbrücken & Forbach wiederum andere fahren ab Mannheim über Karlsruhe/Strassbourg :) 

Um geld zu Sparen bevorzuge ich generell die TGV´s erst ab der 1.franzöischen Station zunutzen
Denn man kann die franz. Inlandsreservierungen Online buchen.
Jene sind günstiger 10€ (begrenzte Verfügbarkeit) oder 20€ bis der Zug ausverkauft ist. 
Einige Internationale TGV Reservierungen sind nur begrenzt für Interrailpassnutzer verfügbar z.B. Paris - Mailand oder Paris - Barcelona 

Ich kenne ihre Reisedaten nicht aber seit Dezember gibt 1x wöchentlich einen direkten TGV aus Freiburg über Strassbourg (hier würde ich einsteigen) nach Bordeaux (um den Umstieg in Paris zu ersparen.) 

Sie werden theorhetisch eine Fahrkarte bis zum “virtuellen” Grenztarifpunkt brauchen aber die DB stellt keine Fahrkarten mehr zu jenen Punkten aus deshalb ist es oftmals der 1.Halt hinter der Grenze. 
hier stellt sich jetzt die Frage mit welchem Zug sie ab Mannheim fahren wollen? (Tag,Uhrzeit oder die Zugnummer) 

Excuse my complete confusion.

Q1. - If I have a Global pass and want to travel across borders, as long as my pass is valid in both countries there is no fee/supplement on any train - correct or not?
Q2 - If my Global (or single country pass) is not valid in one of the countries I have to pay a supplement to travel from the last station in Country A to the first station in country B. - correct or not? Why can’t I simply pay for a standard ticket from last station in A to first station in B?

Q3 - If I buy a normal ticket from any station in Country A to a station in country B (e,g, Mannheim to Strasbourg) Do I still pay the supplement?
Q4 - Is this only the case in Germany?

Q5 - I noticed in one post it was only for trains with compulsory reservations, but there are very few of those in Germany. Also a reference to the Brenner pass supplement. but that train does not have mandatory reservations - so what is going on?

Not correct. Depends on countries, trains and concrete route.

Not correct if you're still thinking of travelling between Germany and France. You need to think of a virtual point in between two stations. One ticket is valid up to / from this point and you pay from / up to this virtual point. 

But I don't know if I got this question. If your pass is not valid in a country, you can't travel in this country for free and you'd need any other ticket. It's valid up to the border and this may be a real station or a virtual tariff point. 

It's also possible to buy a normal ticket from the last station to the next. But then you'll pay double up or from this virtual point. 

To make things more complicated, it's indeed often cheaper to use regional trains. 

No, you don't. It's just for passholder of any kind (but not just for interrail). 

Sorry, I don't understand this exactly. Do you mean that such supplements are existing? 

As you Brits have no real rail-borders in the traditional sense with the rather complicated (or not at all if you know the tricks): Now that I write this I have no idea how it is applied to trips Ulster-IE, where it could also in theory be applied. I think IrishRail/former CIE even has network railcards, so it could

@1. yes

@2. as such a ticket, not a supplmt (that is for an extra to a real ticket). AND in most cases there should be border tariff points for that. Just that due to all the new ITsystems and that hardly anyone knows about it the sales are/were so low that in many cases the systems have not even been adapted to incorporate them-differs per country. PLUS that in most cases, IF still possible, only the sky-high normal fares can be applied. Which makes it often simply a lot cheaper to pay till next stop of train, in theory thus double for a few KMs.

Traditionally INTERNat fare are simply the local fares added to/fro those border points, on a pro KM base, set in public faretables. Whatever reductions one might have are thus also per country-it may very well be that f.e. a senior of 63 gets it in FR and not in BE, or the like. Before € came there was even a special currency for this, in the CIV-system, to allow for the many currencies and often violent and sudden changes in rates. There was a thick folder with the faretables for al the countries (as far as Morocco and Iran), which the ticket-issuer had to consult for each country passed by. The pages also had simple tables for ´transit´=how many KM the common transit routes were. Like Basel-Chiasso for tickets from DE to IT. The price for 100 or 200 KM in country A could differ significant from that in next country B.

In the former Soviet regulated East-and even as far as Vietnam, it was made even simpler: still on same base, per country, but all countries applied the Soviet faretables set in RUR=rubles of that time. That was called SMPS. Any needed RES or sleeping cars etc one had to organise whilst en-route-that was of course long before there was www.

Brits seem to have a very hard time to grasp the concept of these non-station tariff points. or that is my conclusion from reading forums etc and their questions for some 5-7 yrs now.

In that past as above they paid till Ferry stop, a price for ferry, and again from continental ferryport till destination. Tickets would need to have a specific ferry-voucher in between.

@3. then there is no supplmt-unless you want a specific extra service. F.e. taking a bike is an add-on, not a supplmt as such.

@4.no-there may be other weird looking cases on other routes

In some cases-mostly for Austria, the border points are same as a real station (like Brenner, Salzburg, which is IN AT, Kufstein and also Lindau and Buchs, out of AT).

@5.ONLY trains current with mandatory RES running (also) in DE are the NIGhtJets-and some of these even have DB-run portions as seated IC which are exempt from that (same train thus has seats as RES in OeBB cars and non-RES, or rather optional and advisable, in DB-run IC cars).

That for Brenner trains is indeed a real SUPPlmt-for using these trains and specific only for passholders (one could avoid it by using local trains and changing more often, but this is now impossible in IT as local trains are taken by the local SAD which does not accept passes). In SOME cases the RES (which is optional on these trains) can be had for free when done @ counter in AT on ÖBB, but hardly anyone knows that or uses it.

 (THis from a handbook from the 1980s and also some old internal DDR staff info). The whole system was quite logic and fairly easy to appply, all aimed at making hand written tickets without any help of computers, but has since watered down and got messy due to : well , those computers and all the special other fares that came into being after their introduction.

The official DB tariff has just three with a Passzuschlag (we are talking just about trains to / from Germany):

ICE / TGV corporation trains between Germany and France. 

DB-ÖBB EuroCity on the Brenner route to / from Italy.

ECE train to / from Italy.

(Everything here is related to the Passzuschlag discussion, not to any other mandatory reservations for cross border services with Germany or within or between other countries).

And back to Original: in your cae, weil es ja genau B ist, also sehr weit entfernt ab Grenze DE-FR, kostet dies. Meist ist es dann sehr viel billiger SSP oder SP bis zB Saarbrucken oder Offenburg?Kehl zu kaufen und dann im R-zug (tram ab Saarbr/Kehl) Grenze über und erst dann ab echter BHF in FR weiter mit Pass.

ODER mann zahlt die 11-12€ bis nach in PL und fahrt ganz herum-aber das dauert und wird wohl gar nicht in 1 Reisetag möglich sein.

Ab/bis B ist es meist am billigsten (29 oder 39) in die IC nach AMS bis in NL zu fahren mit SP-aber das länert der Fahrt nach FR sehr viel und ausserdem zahlst du dann viel extra für Thalys=eine Art TGV NL-FR und wird es wohl nicht alles zusammen in 1 Reisetag zu machen. Was an sich schon ab B nach Brdx schwierig auskommen kann-sicher hin (rück kann mann ja die NachtZug nehmen)

@seewulf 

hier meine konkrete Zugverbindung. Die anderen Post helfen, aber ich habe immer noch Probleme mit dem Passzuschlag 2 und wo ich mir wie welches Anschlussticket besorgen.

Also diese 2 Verbindungen wären für mich relevant (mit dem Interrail Global Pass, alle Inbound - Outbound Verbindungen wären durch mein TRp nach Zermatt und zurück schon verbraucht):

09.02. - Berlin Hbf → Bordeaux

08:29 ICE 279 → Manheim

13:42 TGV 9552 → Paris EST

18:07 TGV 8551 Paris Montparnasse → Bordeaux

14.02. Bordeaux → Berlin

09:46 TGV 8530 → Paris

13:10 ICE 9553 Paris EST → Frankfurt

17:14 Frankfurt → Berlin

Welche Karte kaufe ich mir im deutschen Bereich bis Grenzstadt bei der DB oder über Passzuschlag 2 und welche Karte über meine Interrail App für meine 2 weiteren Pass Fahrten?

Freu mich auf eine Antwort und 1000 DANK

Also wenn es diese Verbindung sein soll, dann fällt die Option, mit dem Regionalzug über die Grenze zu fahren weg, da weder der TGV auf der Hinfahrt noch der ICE auf der Rückfahrt in Forbach halten. 

Wenn das Interrail-Ticket verwendet wird (vgl. das Fettgedruckte unten), wird in jedem Fall ein "Passzuschlag 2" benötigt. Das ist alternativlos. Es bleibt nur die Frage, ab wo. Aber das ist jetzt eine reine Frage der Kostenoptimierung. Spätestmöglich ist Saarbrücken Hbf. Es geht aber auch jeder Bahnhof davor. Also die Frage wäre: Wieviel teurer wird eine Fahrkarte zum jeweils nächsten Bahnhof im Vergleich zum Passzuschlag? Entweder also jeden Bahnhof ausprobieren, um den Fahrpreis zu optimieren oder einfach Saarbrücken nehmen. 

Du könntest zwei Stunden früher ab Berlin (6.29) Stand jetzt sehr viel billiger fahren. Wäre die Frage, ob das in Frage käme. Wäre ein Umstieg mehr und zwei Stunden (z.B.) Saarbrücken, um etwa 32 Euro zu sparen (ich bin mal von 2. Klasse ausgegangen). Alternative wäre natürlich immer eine ganz andere Verbindung / Strecke.

Zum Interrail-Pass: Bei einem Pass auf Papier hat man kein Problem, da trägt man den Bahnhof ein, ab dem man den Passzuschlag hat. Ich nehme an, dass die App das nicht verarbeiten kann. Man wird da wohl "Forbach (fr)" mit Länderkennung "Frankreich" nach "Paris Est" manuell eintragen müssen. 

ABER:

Aktuell wäre es günstiger, den Interrail-Pass für die Fahrt nach Paris gar nicht zu verwenden. Der Passzuschlag 2 ist teurer als die Weiterfahrt zu bezahlen. Stand heute früh wäre es für die angegebene Verbindung billiger, einfach eine Fahrkarte Berlin-Paris zu kaufen.

Für die Rückfahrt wäre es aktuell knapp günstiger, den Interrail-Pass zu verwenden. Also: Bis “Forbach (fr)” in der App eintragen, am Bahnhof den Passzuschlag 2 bis Saarbrücken kaufen, ab Saarbrücken eine aktuell noch sehr günstige Fahrkarte nach Berlin kaufen.

(Alle Angaben beziehen sich auf eine Fahrt 2. Klasse, für die erste Klasse sieht es eventuell anders aus. Nur zur Sicherheit: Für den TGV ab Paris nach Bordeaux und zurück braucht es eine obligatorische Reservierung für jeweils 10 €.)

Yes, but I know the fare for BC100 holder you pay more than only the French part. If the same happen for Interrail I don't know.

A BC 100 holder has to pay 5 € 2nd class to get to Forbach or Strasbourg and that includes the mandatory reservation (a simple reservation without buying a ticket is already 4,50 € in 2nd class). Seen that way it’s 0,50 € more from the (virtual) frontier point to the real station for the french part. I don’t think that’s really double paying or paying more for the german part if you need to pay 5 € for reservation and ticket in the other country in which the BC 100 isn’t valid. 

I know everybody is trying hard to explain this but I must be stupid as I am even more confused.

I understand stations as tariff points, but I understood that these were stations that had 2 designations, let us say Basel (Sw) and Basle (De) so a pass holder with a Swiss pass could travel to Basel (Sw) and then use a German pass or a paid ticket from Basel (De).

I also understand that there could be a virtual station where if you are on a cross border train and your country pass is valid only for Country A,and for your travel from there in country B you would purchase a ticket from that “station” to your destination, even if the train does not physically stop there.

But I have never heard of a separate fee/supplement for crossing that border, especially if you have a valid ticket for your journey from or to the first station in the country you have a valid pass for.

Is it possible that this fee is why mandatory cross border reservations are significantly more than the equivalent national trains? (Especially if it only applies to trains with mandatory reservations). 

Sorry folks but it is still unclear to this ignorant Brit - anybody able to put into simple terms?

My concern is simply it is something I have never heard of and the original post suggested it was a significant fee that affected somebody simply wanting to know how to leave their COR at least cost. I had always thought all you needed was a valid rail ticket for  stations either side of the border crossing,

So a resident of Germany with a German residents discount card, could use it to to get to the pre-border station, then buy a simple cross border ticket to the first station in France, where their Global or single country pass kicks in. 

So hopefully a simple interpretation - 

If I want to travel on any train with mandatory reservations, with a pass that is only valid in the receiving country, I have to buy a ticket up to the virtual border, then pay this supplement to cover the journey to the French side, and then I activate my pass from the first valid station?

Can I or can I not travel on internal trains at my expense  (e.g. using a DBahn discount card) to the last station in Germany, then, where the tariff point is a virtual point, a simple ticket across the border to first station in France or Belgium. Then of course my Interrail pass becomes valid.

This all seems complicated and impossible to implement for a passenger. How do you buy this supplement? Where do you buy it? Is it separately purchased like a ticket?

I suspect this is actually a behind the scenes process where the operators have a mechanism for adding the supplement into the cross border ticketing/reservation for the majority of trains, and it rarely if ever affects passengers directly.

It’s no problem at all if you have a valid ticket (e.g. a global pass) for the whole journey. Then you may think of this just as “supplement” or “mandatory reservation” you need. But it’s still a significant fee (I’d say) of 16 € (here) if bought at a german station.

It’s always possible to buy a ticket from the last station in country A to the first station in country B. But it may be way too expensive. For instance here: The last stop in Germany is Saarbrücken, the first stop in France is Paris and that’s more than 400 km away. It may not be a good idea to buy a ticket for this if you are holding a railpass for France. But of course it’s possible.

(Some trains do have a stop at Forbach just 10 km away from Saarbrücken - but a normal ICE / TGV ticket for this short journey is 18,50 € 2nd class or 30,50 € 1st class (!) - and from Forbach you’d need the normal 10 € / 20 € supplement for the rest of your journey to Paris if using a railpass. But of course this is just theory, nobody would do this (I hope).) 

And that’s why it’s not even making sense to activate your interrail pass from the first station in France because that’s already the destinaton station of the train (Paris Est to Paris Est?). It wouldn’t be officially correct, too. With a paper pass, nobody cares. With a mobile pass, I think the app wouldn’t let you create a trip from the last station in country A (because your pass isn’t valid here) or would use an inbound / outbound day. So you need to find a way around this, e.g. by adding a trip from this virtual tariff point manually and choose the (for you) correct side of the border. 

We seem to be at cross purposes so  in very simple terms I will use some hypothetical journeys and maybe all will become clear:

I want to go from my home in Cologne to Paris but have no I/O travel days, but a valid Global pass. I decide to use my D Bahn card to Brussels  on the ICE and then change to a Paris service using my Global pass as I am now in Belgium. Do I need to pay a supplement?

If I  do the same journey without a DBahn card do I buy an advance ticket from Cologne to Brussels or one to the “tariff point” (wherever that is), and then this supplement?

If I do a regional train and buy a ticket from  Aachen to Welkenraedt (Be) for 4.50 euro then use my global pass to continue to Brussels do I still pay a supplement?

I still think this is a simple misunderstanding on my part of the original point raised, but I really haven’t heard anything like this. The only possible situation for a Brit is of course travelling on Eurostar on a normal ticket and then using your pass on arrival and this certainly has no additional taxes or fees just because you will be using a pass on further journeys, but of course you cannot continue beyond on the same train without a further reservation. 

Maybe it is also confusing me that it seems to be only on trains that have mandatory reservations and continue after crossing the border, such as Paris to Barcelona.