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Missed Eurostar Paris to London due to SNCF cancellation

  • 22 April 2023
  • 26 replies
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Bowsie Belle
Userlevel 1

 

I am travelling on a global pass one month first class fare between England (origin) France and Spain. 

I am travelling home from south of Barcelona to Newcastle, UK. I am travelling with an assistance dog which make things a little more complicated. I travelled from Barcelona Sants to Latour du Carol on the 14.30 train on Friday 21st April. I had also booked onwards travel to Paris on the night train from Latour du Carol (Pyrénées) to Paris, Fri 21st April, dep. 18.49 arriving 22nd April 06.33. My Eurostar was booked for Paris-London on Sat 22nd at 09.13. 

At 18.00 SNCF cancelled the night train and I was stranded in Latour du Carol. The staff at Latour were inexperienced and unhelpful and told me to head back to the next town (Puigcerda, 4 mins away by train, but in Spain) and stay the night, getting the train in the morning back to Latour de Carol. This was a bad idea as I arrived in puigcerda and there were no trains in the morning and no one to help. I got a cab back to Latour (€40), found the only hotel I could who'd take a dog (€108), got a lift to the station in the morning and am now on a very convoluted, long journey to Paris, via Toulouse and Bordeaux. I arrive in Paris at 8.pm to Montparnasse. The last Eurostar leaves form Gare du Nord at 8.13 and with an assistance dog, I cannot get a Eurostar train to London from Paris later than 18.30 as they need someone in London to check the dog's pet passport etc. So. It looks like I'll be stranded in Paris tonight. SNCF have told me that as I didn't book the Eurostar in the same ticket or the same time as my SNCF ticket they are not obliged to put me up in Paris, nor cover any onward travel.

 

There are no Interail pass fares left on Eurostar trains from Paris to London until Monday. The Eurostar office is closed over the wknd so I cannot ask anyone by phone. The TGV train I'm now on, from Bordeaux to Paris now gets in too late (35 mins late arriving at 8.pm to Montparnasse) to find anyone from Eurostar in person at gare du Nord (last train leaves at 20.13pm).

I need to get back to London tomorrow (which will already be a day late) Does anyone know: 

a) whether SNCF are obliged to put me up in Paris tonight and

b) what is the status of my Eurostar ticket (originally 9.13 today, missed due to French strikes and cancellations).

Are Eurostar obliged to put me, and my assistance dog on the next train (Sunday morning). There are spaces but not pass fares..

 

Thank you SO much for anyone who might be able to advise on what to do, or what my rights are. 

Cheers 🐾

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Best answer by Yorkie 22 April 2023, 23:01

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26 replies

Angelo
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This is very sad to hear, I hope you can get back to UK. Eurostar staff mostly is very kind and helpful. In your case I would ask them at the check-in in Paris Nord station.

This is on foult of SNCF. And tvey would have be obligate to do new reservations and hotels for you since yesterday.…

From Interrail you get only some money for the delay.

Do you have any questions? Feel free to ask in the community! Known languages: Deutsch, Italiano, English.
Bowsie Belle
Userlevel 1

Thanks Angelo!..I hope so. I am wondering what time the Eurostar staff leave Gare du Nord..last train to London today is 8.13pm. I can get there for around 8.30-8.45om even to ask what to do, but not sure if anyone will be there!

Angelo
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You could try... 

But if not you could try to ask SNCF Staff at Gare du Nord station. Maybe they know more about passenger rights.

Do you have any questions? Feel free to ask in the community! Known languages: Deutsch, Italiano, English.
T
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Userlevel 7
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There are Business Premier seats available on all trains of the day so Eurostar staff should be able to put you on whichever train. Otherwise there are also Standard Premier seats on the first train of the day (8:13am).

I guess you can try tonight but tomorrow morning shouldn't be a problem either if you're too exhausted (understandable). Keep receipts of everything so SNCF is able to refund you

Bowsie Belle
Userlevel 1

Thanks. I've just arrived in Montparnasse and have now missed the last Eurostar tonight so I guess I'll stay in Paris and try Eurostar in the morning. Does it matter if pass fares aren't available? Do you think they will just put me on a train to London? That would be nice! 

T
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Userlevel 7
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It shouldn't matter if there are no passholder fares. Explain your situation and they'll understand. You had a reservation for a previous train

I've always found Eurostar staff helpful (compared to SNCF...)

C
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What a nightmare! So sorry to hear about your experience. Sadly the response of SNCF at Latour is completely typical of their approach to customer service. I fear you will have a terrible battle to get any refund of your expenses from them. I would go to my insurance company first. If no joy try SNCF and if they turn you down try Interail eu. I’d echo the comments about Eurostar staff who are normally very helpful if delayed by late running SNCF services. Whatever happens keep copies of all your receipts . Let us know what happens tomorrow. 

C
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On a more general theme SNCF will hide behind regulations pertaining to CIV regulations when you could buy tickets across borders. If you had one of these you were protected for your journey. In general these have not existed for many years. The EU has vigorously resisted giving rail the same protection enjoyed by air travellers.

Sadly I don’t share Angelo’s viewpoint about SNCF’s responsibility to assist you for your whole journey.  Legally you didn’t have a ticket from them for the journey to Paris. They would claim you are only entitled to a refund of your reservation fee to Paris. I would be the first to say this is immoral but legality and morality are not the same thing!

I would love to know what other community members think and more especially your experience of claiming compensation from SNCF when travelling with an Interail. It may be an idea to start a new conversation if enough people are interested.

Y
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Userlevel 7
Badge +10

 

On a more general theme SNCF will hide behind regulations pertaining to CIV regulations when you could buy tickets across borders. If you had one of these you were protected for your journey. In general these have not existed for many years. The EU has vigorously resisted giving rail the same protection enjoyed by air travellers.

Sadly I don’t share Angelo’s viewpoint about SNCF’s responsibility to assist you for your whole journey.  Legally you didn’t have a ticket from them for the journey to Paris. They would claim you are only entitled to a refund of your reservation fee to Paris. I would be the first to say this is immoral but legality and morality are not the same thing!

I would love to know what other community members think and more especially your experience of claiming compensation from SNCF when travelling with an Interail. It may be an idea to start a new conversation if enough people are interested.

I find your argument about SNCF not being liable worrying. Your Interrail pass is indeed a valid ticket for any train you travel on operated by a participating company. You should therefore have exactly the same rights as any other passenger, which have been quoted on the community many times.

Bowsie Belle
Userlevel 1

Thanks so much everyone. So, I arrived in Paris and waited for around an hour at SNCf HQ at Montparnasse, with lots of other people who has missed trains. I gave them my SNCf my booking ref and they have booked me a hotel near gare du Nord for the night, and also have me an onwards pass to present at Eurostar in the morning. So, fingers crossed I will get a train to London tomorrow morning. Re. paying for the hotel at latour de carol last night, taxi fares etc, I'll let you know how I let on claiming compensation for that. They also gave everyone a 'lunchbox' at Montparnasse, including water, a salad, pretzels, a crunchy bar and juice. Something to stave off hunger but I'll still need a meal tonight, so who knows if I'll be able to claim for that. I'll try. Will let you all know how I get on. Thank you so much everyone for the support and advice X 🙏 🇪🇸🐾 🇫🇷 🚂 🇬🇧 💚

A
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Having “Rights” and having a way of enforcing them are two very different things.

The sending the passenger back to Spain was a classic move from someone who knew exactly what they were doing. Getting rid of a problem for someone, anyone, else to deal with, or not. It was away from them so they no longer had to do anything, job done. Added bonus with it being in a different country and train company. They should be getting their medal from SNCF headquarters any day now.

As if they weren’t bad enough anyway, some SNCF staff are extra-bolshie when disruption is due to their  mouvements sociaux.

C
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Hi Angelo. There is indeed no difference between an Interrail and an ordinary ticket. My point is neither of them offer the protection you think they have. If I buy a ticket from La Tour de carol to London I get two separate single tickets. Both have different Terms and Conditions. If my train to Paris is delayed there is no legal obligation to let me board a later Eurostar. Custom and practice means I will be able to board but it is not a defined right. In the days of the Thello services Eurostar made you buy new tickets.

I think the whole community would benefit from you or others publishing the exact documents relating to the obligations of train companies for both National and International travellers when trains are delayed.

These problems were foresee in the UK in respect of Eurostar. You can buy a ticket to London CIV in conjunction with your Eurostar ticket. If your train is delayed you can get the next Eurostar. 
In my view train travellers and particularly international ones must have the same protection as air passengers. The EU has consistently blocked this going forward 

Y
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Userlevel 7
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Hi Angelo. There is indeed no difference between an Interrail and an ordinary ticket. My point is neither of them offer the protection you think they have. If I buy a ticket from La Tour de carol to London I get two separate single tickets. Both have different Terms and Conditions. If my train to Paris is delayed there is no legal obligation to let me board a later Eurostar. Custom and practice means I will be able to board but it is not a defined right. In the days of the Thello services Eurostar made you buy new tickets.

I think the whole community would benefit from you or others publishing the exact documents relating to the obligations of train companies for both National and International travellers when trains are delayed.

These problems were foresee in the UK in respect of Eurostar. You can buy a ticket to London CIV in conjunction with your Eurostar ticket. If your train is delayed you can get the next Eurostar. 
In my view train travellers and particularly international ones must have the same protection as air passengers. The EU has consistently blocked this going forward 

I find your arguments confusing.

You seem to be saying SNCF has no liability if their late arrival or cancellation causes you to miss a train operated by another operator.
I am sure I have read that there is in fact Europe wide legislation that they are obliged to offer and pay for alternative solutions, ranging from arranging changes to taxis, reservation, changes and if no realistic onward solution then overnight accommodation. The only criteria is that the intended connection was reasonable - and again I believe that is simply that the operators planner deemed it so at time of booking.

I understand that many operators often work between themselves in an apparently informal manner (e.g. DBahn and Eurostar in Brussels), but as the OP has now updated that SNCF has given a hotel and onward voucher with Eurostar (i.e. formal arrangement). She has not had to rely on any gentleman’s agreement or pleading with Eurostar.

I may be wrong and I am sure you have a greater knowledge than I have on European Transport Legislation. rvdborgt regularly posts advice on this quoting EC directives.

I agree that there can be a million Km between the rules and the actual implementation, and even at corporate level there may be an aggressive reluctance to freely offer their obligations, but it doesn’t help to suggest we give up on our rights to help at times of need.

C
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It is this legislation I would like see! The fact that theEU has repeatedly blocked attempts to give rail the same protection as air passengers suggests that the so called legislation is nothing more than guidelines.

we can hardly give up rights that do not exist!

Obviously I am delighted that SNCF did look after the stranded passenger but even they can see a PR disaster in the making.

Y
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Userlevel 7
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Do not get confused by guidelines, directives and regulations.

It took me 5 minutes to get this link which gives the full EU legislation, which was in place before Brexit so is currently incorporated into UK legislation.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex%3A32007R1371

If, like me, that is a bit overwhelming here is the summary with option buttons for particular scenarios.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-rights/rail/index_en.htm

There is an option for countries to give exceptions to some operators to some of the requirements, but I believe the vast majority of operator, inside or outside the pass network, are bound by these rules. Companies cannot opt out without government permission.

Angelo
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https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-rights/rail/index_en.htm#

 

Do you have any questions? Feel free to ask in the community! Known languages: Deutsch, Italiano, English.
Bowsie Belle
Userlevel 1

Hi all, so thanks for your thoughts. An update - this morning, I presented myself at Eurostar with my dog and baggage, and they checked my docs to go on the next train, as they had room. Then the Eurostar woman comes back and says, sorry, your dog's tapeworm treatment is 1 hour out of date, ie, the vet on Spain gave it to him and stamped his passport on Tuesday, it's now Sunday. Border control says that dogs have to get tapeworm treatment no more than 5 days and no less than 24 hours in advance of travel. I kid you not, she wouldn't let me on the train and said "you should have thought of that before you travelled". I was stunned, not especially at her acting to the letter of the law, (though surely, 1 hour too late for a tapeworm tablet??) to the actual minute (anyone get stranded by PCR tests?), but at her attitude. She seemed unconcerned, even irritated at me and there was I stranded, with a dog, in Paris, nowhere to stay, no way of getting home. That, I found appalling. I asked to speak to her manager, and with some effort, got through to her. She was apologetic and said if there was anything she could do to change it, she would. She then asked the woman I'd spoken to, to go to SNCF, explain the situation and try to organise me a hotel. I sat on the phone trying a list of emergency vets on Paris trying to find one open who would give my dog a tapworm tablet and stamp. After 1.5 hours on the phone, I found one. It will cost me €130, then I need to wait 24 hours before I can travel. SNCF said that they will find me a hotel but I have to go back to Montparnasse from gare do Nord to arrange this in person, to then come back to gare du Nord, as apparently they can't do this kind of thing over the phone, in the 21st century. I find this hard to believe, and am standing here with dog and luggage at SNCf gare du nord. Now I'm being told to wait to talk to a manager at Eurostar who 'might be able to arrange something'. I've now been at gare du Nord for 4 hours. 

.....update. a manager from Eurostar, looking not long out of school, named Sarah appeared and firstly informed me that she did not like dogs. She then informed me that I had been very lucky that they had organised a hotel for me at Montparnasse. So having come from Montparnasse last night, with heavy luggage, and dog, they want me to go back to Montparnasse stay the night and return to gare du Nord, and be grateful for it. I also at this stage have to get to the vet because the dog has to take the new tapeworm tablet to update the old one which, the validity of which, on his passport had expired by one hour. I then have to wait 24 hours after the vet stamps the pet passport before I can travel. It is almost funny how unhelpful and rude the staff are. The ones that have any power anyway. At this point, looking at the baby-faced Eurostar manager Sarah, telling me to go back to Montparnasse to stay in the hotel, via the vet (opposite direction on other side of Paris), wait 24 hours then come back to gare du Nord, and no they won't cover a taxi and they really are doing me a favour...I kind of lost it…

I then put my luggage in left luggage (€9.50 per 24 hours), and head to vet. Vet is very nice, gives dog pill, stamps passport, relieves me of €140 (tablet plus dog food as I'm out of dog food having left Spain on Friday and expecting to be home by lunchtime yesterday). 

I'm now on my way to Montparnasse with the dog to talk to SNCF about a hotel....I'll update you. I feel like I'm experiencing french bureaucracy at its finest.. plus just really, really unhelpful, untrained staff. Not people you want to be relying on when travelling home from Spain, via France on trains, with luggage and an assistance dog, oh and a job, which I've had to cancel tomorrow as I'll still be stuck in Paris at 9am tomorrow morning. 

Thanks everyone. 

 

 

 

 

T
Rank
Userlevel 7
Badge +5

This is awful. It should be better handled. And yes French bureaucracy is horrible. Why wasn't the manager helpful... ?

I very much hope that you will be able to travel tomorrow…

Keep receipts of everything and SNCF needs to refund you. There is European legislation I know but @rvdborgt could better help you

Bowsie Belle
Userlevel 1

Thanks thibcabe, much appreciated. It says at the top, in this forum that this case is 'solved', I wonder why...I will keep all receipts and claim and thanks to everyone who has posted with links to consumer rights! 🐾💚

R
Rank
Userlevel 7
Badge +9

It took me 5 minutes to get this link which gives the full EU legislation, which was in place before Brexit so is currently incorporated into UK legislation.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex%3A32007R1371

If, like me, that is a bit overwhelming here is the summary with option buttons for particular scenarios.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-rights/rail/index_en.htm

There is an option for countries to give exceptions to some operators to some of the requirements, but I believe the vast majority of operator, inside or outside the pass network, are bound by these rules. Companies cannot opt out without government permission.

Correct. It's the governments who decide on any exemptions and they can't exempt companies, but only types of traffic, which would then apply across companies.

As a summary: my understanding is that with an Interrail, you have an international through ticket to anywhere, with which you just need to have reservations where needed.

While it is possible to exempt some services from some of the requirements, national long distance services in France are not (see this table), so the cancelled night train was fully covered and SNCF are obliged to organise assistance. This does include transport by taxi to any hotel they organise, see article 18 of Regulation 1371/2007.

Please ask questions in the community and not via a private message. That's the quickest way to get a response. I don't work for Eurail/Interrail.
R
Rank
Userlevel 7
Badge +9

The fact that theEU has repeatedly blocked attempts to give rail the same protection as air passengers suggests that the so called legislation is nothing more than guidelines.

EU Regulation 1371/2007 for rail passengers is weaker in some points than EU Regulation 261/2004 for air passengers, but it doesn't mean at all that it's just guidelines.

It's in fact the big national rail companies who block better legislation, by fiercely lobbying their governments, the European Commission and the European Parliament.

Please ask questions in the community and not via a private message. That's the quickest way to get a response. I don't work for Eurail/Interrail.
Bowsie Belle
Userlevel 1

Thanks all. Well, the latest is that I got to Montparnasse, having come from SNCF at gare du Nord where I left all my luggage. Thank goodness and I'm glad I did as the manager at Montparnasse was so rude, unhelpful and refused to honour the supposed hotel that is been told has been booked. He shouted at me and spoke over me in aggressively in French (my French is ok but he spoke loudly and very fast and I didn't understand everything). I asked him to repeat his points so I could understand, and he then said that he was ending all conversation with me, that I'd had a hotel last night and it was gare du Nord's responsibility to look after me. And with that he walked off. By then I realised there was no point wasting yet more time and energy. So, I headed back to gare du Nord, by which time the SNCF office was closed. I think they sent me there deliberately to get me off their case and pass the buck. I took my stuff and booked into the same hotel I was in last night. 

What a day, and I'm still stranded in Paris with my dog.l, having left Spain on Friday lunchtime. I hope I don't meet any of the idiots tomorrow that I had to deal with today. They were all completely useless and worse, just plain rude and nasty. Fingers crossed I manage to get home tomorrow.. Thanks for the legislation links everyone, I mentioned these to the rude SNCF manager at Montparnasse and it caused him to explode, loudly in French...🤔

T
Rank
Userlevel 7
Badge +5

Fingers crossed too !

Again I'm desesperated by SNCF. As soon as something goes wrong, they make it like it's not their fault !!! Yeah of course…

His reaction to the regulations even better shows that they know what they are doing

Bowsie Belle
Userlevel 1

Hi All, I finally got back, and have never been more glad to be home, only 2.5 days late and more than £500 out of pocket. SNCF were worse than useless and Eurostar little better, each shifting the responsibility of looking after the customer onto someone else...now I'll see if I can get any refunds. 

R
Rank
Userlevel 7
Badge +9

Hi All, I finally got back, and have never been more glad to be home, only 2.5 days late and more than £500 out of pocket. SNCF were worse than useless and Eurostar little better, each shifting the responsibility of looking after the customer onto someone else...now I'll see if I can get any refunds. 

Let us know how you get on. Keep in kind that SNCF doesn't have the last word. The French ombudsman is often a useful mediator and there's also an enforcement body for for Regulation 1371/2007 but I'm not sure if the French one is any good.

Please ask questions in the community and not via a private message. That's the quickest way to get a response. I don't work for Eurail/Interrail.

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